Just saw this on the bridge collapsing. Don't recall how close any of you are to Minneapolis or if you use I-35.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_bridge_collapse
Everyone all right?
Minnesota guys - You OK?
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Everyone in the family is fine, and everyone I know personally is fine as well. This may get to be a long post, so get a coffee and settle in for a good read, and the most I've had to post in a LONG time.
After having 24 hours to totally digest what's happened, and reading updates from various news sources, and seeing some of the constant coverage not only on the normal news outlets, but on ESPN, and everywhere else it seems I turned my satellite dish to. The thing that strikes me, is the amount of coverage this bridge collapse has received. The President will be here Saturday, the First Lady is due here Friday morning, the Speaker of The House has sent condolences, and the Federal Government has made emergency funding available to the state for recovery and cleanup, which I know $5 million seems like a lot, but this tragedy in cleanup will cost far, far more. When the bridge in Arkansas got hit by the barge, the President didn't go to survey the scene, and the news coverage wasn't near as extensive, and more people died there than what is projected to be the case here.
This is a tragedy, and closer to home for me than anything I have ever witness on the news in my life. On 9/11, everyone in the country felt a direct sense of loss, and grief, wondering what happened. This event does not compare to that day, but the media in general is giving this almost as much coverage. I have to ask why. Are there not enough problems in the world to cover? Slow news week? In my opinion, the 24 hour coverage can stop about 12 hours ago. The recovery process is in full effect, EMS workers are all trained, and are working as safely as possible. There are no fires burning, no real chemical hazards, no unknown substances around, no air quality problems. Charlie Gibson was in Minneapolis this morning reporting from a news chopper on Good Morning America, Anderson Cooper was in Minneapolis tonight with an entire gaggle of reporters. Larry King was doing satellite interviews with survivors, stringing them along with questions a blindfolded chimpanzee could hit with a pair of chopsticks. Enough is enough. Minnesotans in general do not go out searching media attention, and this kind of coverage is not worth the expense.
Aside from the incessant coverage, I have to say as a Minnesotan, I have traveled that bridge countless times since I was a baby. I drove over that bridge every day for 3 years on my way to and from work. Getting caught on that thing in traffic is not something I ever enjoyed. I know all bridges have some deflection built into them to cope with the stresses they are put under , but I always had a queasy feeling if I ever got stuck out over the water, which happened on occasion. The deflection in this bridge felt excessive to me. You could feel it through your entire car, and your whole body could feel every vibration sitting on it. When I'd ride my motorcycle and get stuck in traffic, I would get really nervous, because I could feel the shaking in my feet and through the whole bike. I never thought I could feel scared for my life while I wasn't moving, but that was the most terrified I have ever felt on a motorcycle, and I've had my share of close calls. I can't believe the bridge just collapsed, but I can't say I'm incredibly surprised.
The road work that was going on on the bridge the last two months had the bridge shut down to two lanes each side while crews fixed lights and repaired "cosmetic" concrete damage, and replaced guard rails, and was having portions of the decking resurfaced, and joint work was being done. This bridge was one of the first in the country to have an anti-icing system in place on it, so the joints were more than just joints, they were also drains for the chemicals they use in the winter to keep the bridge safe for cars after it snows. After this accident, I've wondered if it were possible for that system to have played a part in the early demise of this bridge. Probably not, but a thought just the same.
Now, with a complete replacement necessary, I hope the cleanup and reconstruction goes as quickly as possible, and not the 2 years that has been projected. This one bridge is a vital part of our transportation system, not only to get From North to South, but to get to many places in downtown Minneapolis. This has already caused many roads that are already overflowing with traffic to be bursting, and I hear reports of many more accidents today than on most any day. (Including weather days, if you can believe it) This even is going to have a long lasting effect not only here in Minnesota, but the rest of the country, and make governments take a look at their bridges and the rest of their infrastructure and truly asses what needs help to keep the public safe. Bridges aren't supposed the just collapse. If a barge or riverboat had hit the bridge, that would be a different story, but something like this is truly a scary thing. I travel across no fewer than 7 bridges to get to work, and a few of them are fairly high in the air, and I have to admit, I've been looking at them a little differently. If my State Government failed to correct deficiencies identified by the DOT, MNDOT, AND the University of Minnesota, whats to say they've ignored more? It's a sad day here, and there's going to be more deaths reported as the EMS crews recover the cars and bodies that were trapped under the rubble in the river.
The Red Cross has set up a fund for the victims and families who were affected by this, and if you feel inclined to help, call the Red Cross and designate your donation to the Minnesota Bridge Disaster. I'm not sure if that's what they're calling it, but at least you know the money is going there instead of Iraq or somewhere else.
Thanks for reading this incoherent jumble, but now you get a look into the mind of someone who lives literally 10 minutes from the scene, and my reaction and feeling, and I think it's probably the best feeling you'll get about it than from any news story.
-SH
After having 24 hours to totally digest what's happened, and reading updates from various news sources, and seeing some of the constant coverage not only on the normal news outlets, but on ESPN, and everywhere else it seems I turned my satellite dish to. The thing that strikes me, is the amount of coverage this bridge collapse has received. The President will be here Saturday, the First Lady is due here Friday morning, the Speaker of The House has sent condolences, and the Federal Government has made emergency funding available to the state for recovery and cleanup, which I know $5 million seems like a lot, but this tragedy in cleanup will cost far, far more. When the bridge in Arkansas got hit by the barge, the President didn't go to survey the scene, and the news coverage wasn't near as extensive, and more people died there than what is projected to be the case here.
This is a tragedy, and closer to home for me than anything I have ever witness on the news in my life. On 9/11, everyone in the country felt a direct sense of loss, and grief, wondering what happened. This event does not compare to that day, but the media in general is giving this almost as much coverage. I have to ask why. Are there not enough problems in the world to cover? Slow news week? In my opinion, the 24 hour coverage can stop about 12 hours ago. The recovery process is in full effect, EMS workers are all trained, and are working as safely as possible. There are no fires burning, no real chemical hazards, no unknown substances around, no air quality problems. Charlie Gibson was in Minneapolis this morning reporting from a news chopper on Good Morning America, Anderson Cooper was in Minneapolis tonight with an entire gaggle of reporters. Larry King was doing satellite interviews with survivors, stringing them along with questions a blindfolded chimpanzee could hit with a pair of chopsticks. Enough is enough. Minnesotans in general do not go out searching media attention, and this kind of coverage is not worth the expense.
Aside from the incessant coverage, I have to say as a Minnesotan, I have traveled that bridge countless times since I was a baby. I drove over that bridge every day for 3 years on my way to and from work. Getting caught on that thing in traffic is not something I ever enjoyed. I know all bridges have some deflection built into them to cope with the stresses they are put under , but I always had a queasy feeling if I ever got stuck out over the water, which happened on occasion. The deflection in this bridge felt excessive to me. You could feel it through your entire car, and your whole body could feel every vibration sitting on it. When I'd ride my motorcycle and get stuck in traffic, I would get really nervous, because I could feel the shaking in my feet and through the whole bike. I never thought I could feel scared for my life while I wasn't moving, but that was the most terrified I have ever felt on a motorcycle, and I've had my share of close calls. I can't believe the bridge just collapsed, but I can't say I'm incredibly surprised.
The road work that was going on on the bridge the last two months had the bridge shut down to two lanes each side while crews fixed lights and repaired "cosmetic" concrete damage, and replaced guard rails, and was having portions of the decking resurfaced, and joint work was being done. This bridge was one of the first in the country to have an anti-icing system in place on it, so the joints were more than just joints, they were also drains for the chemicals they use in the winter to keep the bridge safe for cars after it snows. After this accident, I've wondered if it were possible for that system to have played a part in the early demise of this bridge. Probably not, but a thought just the same.
Now, with a complete replacement necessary, I hope the cleanup and reconstruction goes as quickly as possible, and not the 2 years that has been projected. This one bridge is a vital part of our transportation system, not only to get From North to South, but to get to many places in downtown Minneapolis. This has already caused many roads that are already overflowing with traffic to be bursting, and I hear reports of many more accidents today than on most any day. (Including weather days, if you can believe it) This even is going to have a long lasting effect not only here in Minnesota, but the rest of the country, and make governments take a look at their bridges and the rest of their infrastructure and truly asses what needs help to keep the public safe. Bridges aren't supposed the just collapse. If a barge or riverboat had hit the bridge, that would be a different story, but something like this is truly a scary thing. I travel across no fewer than 7 bridges to get to work, and a few of them are fairly high in the air, and I have to admit, I've been looking at them a little differently. If my State Government failed to correct deficiencies identified by the DOT, MNDOT, AND the University of Minnesota, whats to say they've ignored more? It's a sad day here, and there's going to be more deaths reported as the EMS crews recover the cars and bodies that were trapped under the rubble in the river.
The Red Cross has set up a fund for the victims and families who were affected by this, and if you feel inclined to help, call the Red Cross and designate your donation to the Minnesota Bridge Disaster. I'm not sure if that's what they're calling it, but at least you know the money is going there instead of Iraq or somewhere else.
Thanks for reading this incoherent jumble, but now you get a look into the mind of someone who lives literally 10 minutes from the scene, and my reaction and feeling, and I think it's probably the best feeling you'll get about it than from any news story.
-SH
"Never, Never, Never quit." - Winston Churchill
"Men don't like to cuddle. They only cuddle if it leads to.. You know.. Lower cuddling." - Ray Romano
"Tell your wife that she looks pretty, even if she looks like a dump truck." - Ricky, age 10
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I think I can answer part of the media coverage, Hat.
This is a feeding frenzy, a political one. Every Thom-Dakk and Ha-Ray with a political axe to grind is at this very moment digging through Congressional records, looking to find out who voted for or against transportation bills and why.
Governor Pawlenty isn't going to survive the next election cycle, I think. There have already been snipes in various articles mentioning his vetoing of various transportation bills over the past years. I wouldn't be surprised if he vetoed those bills because of excessive pork//graft... but that's not going to matter. First his 'fees' and now this? Dead man walking. Who knows who else is going to get caught out in a similar fashion.
Mind that I'm of the firm opinion that Minnesota has the worst highway system I've ever encountered in my travels throughout the US. There are places on Interstate 90 so bad as to be outright 'sign this waiver' dangerous in anything but clear sunny weather. Rochester itself has some truly atrocious street maintenance issues, a fact that has always surprised me given that the city attracts so much international patronage. You'd think the city council would want to make a better impression, and that the state would want very much to support a good image.
I mean, for cryin' out loud, I don't have to buy butter if I don't want to. I can just buy a jug of milk and put it in a cooler and then drive it around for a while.
All that said, I've been doing some research into bridge disasters. While we're all probably familiar with cases like the Tacoma Narrows bridge, or the ones in California that collapsed during an earthquake, or 'barge X hit bridge Y', there are a surprising number of 'just happened to fail on Day X' disasters, too. And the key component in just about all of them was lack of maintenance and redundancy in the structure. One thing breaks, forces get transferred to the rest of the structure in a new way, rest of the structure isn't built to handle the new direction//twist//shear, another thing breaks, and pow, no more bridge.
Bleh. Truss bridges always make me a little nervous, especially after trying to build some back in school shop class. Bloody things are difficult to balance right.
On the plus side of things, the NTSB is on the scene now. I'm confident they'll get this figured out.
This is a feeding frenzy, a political one. Every Thom-Dakk and Ha-Ray with a political axe to grind is at this very moment digging through Congressional records, looking to find out who voted for or against transportation bills and why.
Governor Pawlenty isn't going to survive the next election cycle, I think. There have already been snipes in various articles mentioning his vetoing of various transportation bills over the past years. I wouldn't be surprised if he vetoed those bills because of excessive pork//graft... but that's not going to matter. First his 'fees' and now this? Dead man walking. Who knows who else is going to get caught out in a similar fashion.
Mind that I'm of the firm opinion that Minnesota has the worst highway system I've ever encountered in my travels throughout the US. There are places on Interstate 90 so bad as to be outright 'sign this waiver' dangerous in anything but clear sunny weather. Rochester itself has some truly atrocious street maintenance issues, a fact that has always surprised me given that the city attracts so much international patronage. You'd think the city council would want to make a better impression, and that the state would want very much to support a good image.
I mean, for cryin' out loud, I don't have to buy butter if I don't want to. I can just buy a jug of milk and put it in a cooler and then drive it around for a while.
All that said, I've been doing some research into bridge disasters. While we're all probably familiar with cases like the Tacoma Narrows bridge, or the ones in California that collapsed during an earthquake, or 'barge X hit bridge Y', there are a surprising number of 'just happened to fail on Day X' disasters, too. And the key component in just about all of them was lack of maintenance and redundancy in the structure. One thing breaks, forces get transferred to the rest of the structure in a new way, rest of the structure isn't built to handle the new direction//twist//shear, another thing breaks, and pow, no more bridge.
Bleh. Truss bridges always make me a little nervous, especially after trying to build some back in school shop class. Bloody things are difficult to balance right.
On the plus side of things, the NTSB is on the scene now. I'm confident they'll get this figured out.
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Spinning Hat
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Yeah, the NTSB will get this figured out, but it'll be a year or more until we even see a preliminary report. I saw a news conference with the head of MNDOT, and he said that they were aware of the deficiencies, and they could either add plates to reinforce the structure or reinspect, and they reinspected and did nothing. I just hope they start clearing out the mess and reconstruction soon. We can't have that bridge missing for too long, otherwise things in the metro are gonna be really nasty for daily commuters...
"Never, Never, Never quit." - Winston Churchill
"Men don't like to cuddle. They only cuddle if it leads to.. You know.. Lower cuddling." - Ray Romano
"Tell your wife that she looks pretty, even if she looks like a dump truck." - Ricky, age 10
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XMEN Gambit
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On the news this morning on the way to work, I heard them say after the reports on funding, the Twins had quietly canceled the groundbreaking ceremony yesterday for their new taxpayer funded stadium.
As far as the 24x7 news coverage, it's An Event. And no news organization ever wants to be left out of An Event. The big drop in the stock market today gave them something else to talk about for a few minutes every hour, though. Speaking of which, now might be a good time to invest in concrete and steel suppliers, and road construction companies...
As far as the 24x7 news coverage, it's An Event. And no news organization ever wants to be left out of An Event. The big drop in the stock market today gave them something else to talk about for a few minutes every hour, though. Speaking of which, now might be a good time to invest in concrete and steel suppliers, and road construction companies...
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Spinning Hat
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yeah, the Stadium is a sore issue here, mostly because the State and the County are funding the largest portion, and the Twins are contributing about 1/3 the cost. :/ Investing in road construction companies here is always a good idea... There's always something going on with that it seems.
"Never, Never, Never quit." - Winston Churchill
"Men don't like to cuddle. They only cuddle if it leads to.. You know.. Lower cuddling." - Ray Romano
"Tell your wife that she looks pretty, even if she looks like a dump truck." - Ricky, age 10